User talk:Fray of Frey
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the House Baelish page. We welcome all contributions to the Wiki but please be aware of the following simple rules: 1) This wiki is meant for the Game of Thrones TV series and the TV alone. Spoilers from the novels are not permitted at all. Discussion of earlier events in the novels and the use of non-spoiler background material from the novel as regards specific events, characters and places in the TV series are allowed (in the 'In the books' section of an article) but future events cannot be discussed. 2) This wiki has specific permission from HBO's marketing department to use a reasonable number of promotional images and screencaps from the series to illustrate articles. The use of other copyrighted images is not permitted without either specific permission or fair use attributions. For example, this Wiki cannot use Amoka's portrait images or Ted Nasmith's castle pictures as these are copyrighted. In addition, the Wiki is focused on the TV series and TV series alone. Images from other media should be avoided without a very good cause. Enjoy your editing and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Greater good (talk) 04:08, January 10, 2016 (UTC) Heraldry I'm sorry, but we only use the official heraldry designs from the TV show continuity itself.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 16:29, February 6, 2016 (UTC) "AKA" http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Merry_Frey?diff=next&oldid=230314 The "AKA" field is for consistent aliases and nicknames, i.e. Sandor "The Hound" Clegane. Even a frequently repeated mocking insult name like "The Imp" for Tyrion; but not one-off things.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:05, February 14, 2016 (UTC) Same goes for House mottos: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/House_Frey?diff=230642&oldid=230371 ONE INSTANCE of Catelyn saying "their motto might as well be "more pride than honor" ", does not constitute "a saying" in the same manner as "a Lannister always pays his debts." --The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:30, February 14, 2016 (UTC) American spelling American spelling is standard on this wiki: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/House_Frey?diff=230642&oldid=230371 Never use British Spellings - this is strictly enforced.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 22:32, February 14, 2016 (UTC) Revisions House Baelish of Harrenhal I vote against the motion, we should keep it. It is appropriate to indentify it as a cadet branch of a Lordship in two different regions. House Frey and House Frey of Riverrun is a somewhat similar case. If House Frey can have two branches, why can't House Baelish do so as well? Fray of Frey (talk) 13:07, January 25, 2016 (UTC) :I've removed the delete flag for now, and also the one on House Frey of Riverrun. Could the user who put the flags there please come forward? Fray of Frey (talk) 02:44, January 26, 2016 (UTC) :Voting to delete. There is no mention in the show or show-related material that Petyr officially or unofficially founded a cadet branch of House Baelish. Additionally, there is very little need for him to at this time - after all, he is the only surviving Baelish. M. Souls (talk) 10:38, January 30, 2016 (UTC) Lysa's Bastard Child: Nominated for deletion as there is no concrete evidence that Littlefinger impregnated Lysa in the show's continuity - and nothing in House Baelish's Histories and Lore segment suggests it - only that Petyr and Lysa were sexually involved long before their marriage. M. Souls (talk) 20:39, January 23, 2016 (UTC) : As the creator of the page, I take full responsibility for any inconvenience or any false validity of the page. I will admit that there is, however, no evidence to suggest that the character does or does not exist, and from my perspective it seemed that the character did exist. :As it is, I now understand there is not enough proof to keep the page. However there is not enough proof to delete the page either. :We should wait for disclosure from GRRM or D.B. Weiss & David Benioff, on whether or not they had meant for this character to be included. Fray of Frey (talk) 08:42, January 24, 2016 (UTC) ::I've removed the delete flag for now. Fray of Frey (talk) 02:42, January 26, 2016 (UTC) ::So we should create articles on this wiki for every character from the books that hasn't appeared in the show because they could ''exist in show continuity? M. Souls (talk) 10:41, January 30, 2016 (UTC) ...yeah, this is my fault: I was dealing with a family medical emergency for the past month and I only just caught up on the wiki ''now. The specific reason you gave for creating a "Lysa's bastard" article was given on the History page for Lysa Arryn: :"Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I recall hearing a Histories & Lore edition somewhere that Lysa and Petyr's bastard child was part of the show just as it was part of the books?" If you are uncertain if an article should exist, and openly state you don't have a clear citation, you should have asked an Administrator for help. You made no attempt to find the citation for the Histories & Lore, then proceeded to interlink the new article into the infoboxes of half a dozen other characters. If you weren't sure if the article should exist, why put links to it on Sansa's page? This will make work for me to remove it. Officially, no, the Histories & Lore never even remotely implied that Lysa once had a pregnancy by Littlefinger. We've been combing over those things for months and we'd have noticed something that big. Next, The old Baelish Titan Head sigil - You copied the old sigil from AWOIAF, made no attempt to confirm that it actually hasn't been established in the TV show yet, and the proceeded to add it to every plausible page. It will make work for the rest of us to remove them now. The Titan Head sigil wasn't established in the TV continuity. Putting the Titan's head sigil into Littlefinger's article http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Petyr_Baelish?diff=230352&oldid=230348 (I agree with M.Souls; However it isn't really a matter of what is used in the show. The Titans's head sigil is the sigil that Littlefinger was born under; and in the show, Littlefinger began using the Mockingbird around Season 2. We should keep th...) -- Fray of Frey That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what "agreeing" means, and the EXACT OPPOSITE of how heraldry works on here. The Titan of Braavos sigil was never established in the TV continuity....at any point in time stretching back centuries, even when Littlefinger was a child. It's not just that it doesn't exist "now" in the TV series, it never existed in the overall universe/continuity of the TV show. What do you mean "sigil he was born under?" -- not in the TV continuity. ....NO Littlefinger did not begin using the Mockingbird sigil around Season 2. What? We saw him wearing a Mockingbird pin throughout Season 1 - they even made merchandise from it. Get your facts straight. YES, it is "a matter of what is used in the show" -- this is a wiki about "the TV continuity". House Frey of Harrenhal, and House Frey of Riverrun Had you looked through the Talk page discussions, you'd see that this has been a big thing with us for years: the TV show never mentioned that Baelish was nominally given not only Harrenhal, but through it, nominal overlordship over the Riverlands. Instead they've vaguely implied the Freys rule it directly. They were intentionally vague about this, however; they mention they're going to reward the Freys with Riverrun, though we felt it wasn't worth making a "House Frey of Riverrun" article just yet. Thankfully, what we were hoping for has happened: the long delayed Riverlands subplot is going to be revisted in Season 6 after spending 2 years off. So these questions should be directly answered now. So I'm going to delete these two articles for now, though I anticipate us adding them back soon during Season 6. Walder Frey's family infoboxes "Waldrina" Frey doesn't exist - we're not taking it to imply that a new TV only character was invented because he couldn't remember someone's exact name. He was just fishing around for a correct name - it's not enough to justify three other Frey girl articles as existing. DO NOT put characters in infoboxes who aren't established in the TV show: you took that fact that Fat Walda exists as justification that Merrett Frey from the novels also exists - when really they could condense all of that later. Baelish Keep - was seen in a Histories & Lore cartoon, if not referred to by name, but yes its appearance alone is enough to merit articles based on it, thank you for your work. Overall, You are in trouble for nothing. You were working diligently and the fault was mine, I was away from the wiki for a few weeks dealing with family medical stuff -- had I been here I'd have quickly told you not to waste time writing up these things or whether they were justifiable or not. You DID ask in an edit summary "hey, is Lysa's bastard evidenced in the Histories & Lore?" and understandably interpreted my inaction as consent. That was purely my fault. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, I'm active again now and will help you out with any other questions. I do foresee a lot of updates to the Frey articles in Season 6 now that they're returning, you'll have fun with those. It's also very interesting - we've never had a Frey bannerman on here before, with the userbox and everything. P.S. Thank you for your help with sorting out that infobox stuff with Sansa etc. regarding marriage relationships, etc. --The Dragon Demands (talk) 21:39, February 14, 2016 (UTC) RE: "AKA", RE: American spelling, RE: Revisons TDD, First of all, allow me to give my respects to you and your family, particularly your grandmother and your cat (I saw the discussion above regarding your inactivity), of course, I would also like to apologise for any incovenience regarding the articles, images, etc. Allow me to give my take, so we are on the same page, "AKA" I take full responsibility for this, the constitution of "More pride than honor" NOT being a saying was not to my knowledge. "American spelling" I am aware of the standards, but I hope you would award some forgivness here - I'm not American. "Revisions" Lysa's Bastard Child I was partially conscious that this article MAY or MAY NOT have been acceptable, however I'm not prepared to express the course of my actions, and I would rather just apologise for the former. However, I was particularly upset that User: M. Souls (who had, at the time, never edited as a user on the wikia, from my knowledge) had moved the deletion motion, instead of an administrator. Now of course, his judgement is justifiable, and he should be commended. House Baelish of Harrenhal, and House Frey of Riverrun I'm not sure what you're implying about Baelish being overlord of the Riverlands, I don't recall editing something like that - but if I did, I apologise. Of the other matter, I also anticipated that the articles may be put into use during Season 6, and had I not created the article when I did, I would have created it during Season 6. I will admit however, I was negligent about reading the talk pages. Titan's head sigil This irritates me as well. I had seen an AWOIAF image on this wiki (which was a heraldry for House Velaryon), so I assumed that the Titan's Head was acceptable for use. Of the simultaneous use of the Titan's head with the Mockingbird, the mistake is dually noted on the basis of the use of the Mockingbird in the show. Walder Frey's family infobox I had feared that was the case with the three other Frey girls, it was only after I had created the articles that I realised. Of Fat Walda, ''I didn't add Merrett Frey to the infobox ''(meaning, I wasn't the user who did this) Overall, I did realize that you had been inactive (being a patron of the wikia for years, I knew how active you were), and I now realise on reflection that I should not have acted the way that I did. I had mainly based my actions with opinion over fact (not that I didn't have facts). I apologise for my prejudice, which, I am sure, in turn prejudiced many other patrons. Thank you for your courtesy and professionalism on this matter. Fray of Frey (talk) 09:42, February 15, 2016 (UTC) ...what prejudice? Anyway, again, Lysa's Bastard was my fault; you asked about it but I didn't respond in a timely fashion. (...dunno who added Merrett Frey...) "I had seen an AWOIAF image on this wiki " -- well yeah because I wasn't here to take those down like they should have been. Well just make sure stuff you add is properly cited and so forth. All is well.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 03:48, February 19, 2016 (UTC) Infobox family listing Don't list every plausible family member in the infoboxes - particularly for large extended families such as the Lannisters. General idea for the Lannisters I've been trying to follow is to list "the ones who have appeared on-screen" (thus Tyrion page also lists Lancel), or immediate family (Joanna died before the series began but she is their mother). I mean, what are we going to do for Daenerys? List every king in order back to Aegon the First? :) Try to keep it to "characters that appear on-screen" or "characters they directly interact with" or "close relatives" (nuclear family, probably also first cousin). If you've only got two things listed, what the hell, list all of them (i.e. Samwell Tarly lists that he's Shireen's second cousin...but he has a dialogue scene with Shireen, thus it "merits" that). Most family trees aren't that large though. Other than the Starks, Lannisters, Targaryens, I don't think this is too much of an issue. ...and the Freys. Oh gods, right, the Freys. Well, we can't list off three dozen people in every infobox it would get too long and interfere with the text. Er...try to keep it down to a "plausible" level on the Frey pages, i.e. the "important" ones -- the ones even HBO lists on their website's family tree: Lord Walder, Lame Lothar, Black Walder Rivers, but not Ryger Rivers or the random Frey girls we met exactly once in "The Rains of Castamere" and who were never seen again. Check out what I put on the Walda Bolton page as an example.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 02:05, April 4, 2016 (UTC) Sorry. Understood. Fray of Frey (talk) 11:30, April 4, 2016 (UTC)